sw1mushfandomcom-20200215-history
SW1ki:Votes for deletion/Aeschylian weapons
Aeschylian weapons The article itself says it's not canon. This has been up for a while and I'm sure the TP is over by now. Delete? --Danik Kreldin 02:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC) Keep *Yes. On Principle. -- Hawke / Rtufo 16:45, 8 November 2007 (UTC) Userfy * There's some decent content there; however, it's not official for the MUSH. Make it a subpage of the original author. Should it ever get approved, we can merge it back into the main namespace. -- Xerxes 18:25, 8 November 2007 (UTC) *Sounds good. --Danik Kreldin 21:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC) Delete *Yes. --ImperialFH 16:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC) Discussion The article itself says it's not canon. This has been up for a while and I'm sure the TP is over by now. Delete? --Danik Kreldin 02:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC) Nah, I'll fold this information into proper weapons pages, and then vape the article when done. -- Hawke / Rtufo 05:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC) *This is exactly the sort of reason why the Wiki is generally thought to have no relevance to the MUSH. These weapons do not belong on the Wiki, they were never approved by the RPA so in essence, beyond the one shot they had in a plot (If it ever happened), they don't exist. --ImperialFH 13:35, 8 November 2007 (UTC) I think it's unfair, Prospero, to say the entire Wiki is trash because of one trash article. This is one article out of 2,723 articles. I think the numbers are in favor of the Wiki. It's like saying because someone puts up an irrelevant and trash article on Wikipedia, all of Wikipedia is instantly trash. It just seems to me that you have a personal vendetta to see the Wiki shut down and everything deleted. Yes, this is a irrelevant article, but it's just one article and it will be dealt with. I am in favor of deleting it ASAP because it is uncanon (and thus all the weapons listed) and it has no use here. --Danik Kreldin 15:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC) *I have no vendetta against the wiki. I don't view the Wiki as irrelevant or trash. But that view is pretty common on the game, I have heard half a dozen players say they don't contribute here because they don't view it as a legitimate source of material, and articles like this one are the reason why. --ImperialFH 16:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC) Your reaction, ImpFH, is the exact reason why I'll keep the Wiki going until my last stroke on the keyboard. The weapons listed were created for a microcosm TP, and were agreed upon by the participating players. They were so used to give a sense of uniqueness and elaboration to the scene and characters participating. It's all about writing, and fleshing out, a good story; Not about winning on the MUSH by killing everyone using a coded super bazooka blaster, or having the biggest, baddest Star Destroyer. And just because there's an encyclopedic entry about some object does not guarantee that said object is actually coded and available on the MUSH. In the very bylaws of the MUSH, the RPA is employed to settle differences of theme and strife between players. If the players agreed to something as minor as this, then what reason do they need to get any RPA approval, provided their TP does not interfere with the plotlines or status of other players outside their immediate circle? If you're going to mandate that _every_ TP must contain interaction and objects that are _completely_ approved by the RPA, then you're giving the bureaucracy more power than it's due and this place will be absolutely no fun whatsoever. It will dry up far faster for this reason than because the compendium Wiki is "irrelevant". If we really want to dice onions, I will emphatically opine that the reason why the MUSH is so miserable is because the information on it is _so_ out-of-date, and the means of editing/altering/improving said information are restrictive and primeval. -- Hawke / Rtufo 16:40, 8 November 2007 (UTC) *I do agree with Hawke on the principle of approval. I was on the RPA for many months and I can say for certain that we did not have to approve every single thing on the MUSH. But that is my issue with Admin attitude. When I was on the Admin I always got this feeling that everyone else treated the game like it was their plaything. I honestly felt that players were oppressed and very many players I talked to over the years felt the same way. That's why I always tried to maintain a very friendly relationship with other players, I was always cordial and respectful and I never hid behind a fake name. I wanted players to trust me and know I trusted them. I asked them for their opinions and everything else. How it's related to this is simple... the admin are not dictators and the RPA is not the first place to go to get approval on matters. Ideally it should be last. When players get together in a TP, it should be free of bureaucracy and admin interference - players should be free to RP. It's only when disputes occur and players can't reconcile, or when the TP calls for something beyond the players' capacity that the RPA or admin need to come in. For instance, you don't actually need RPA approval to steal a ship -if- you get the ship owner's approval first. But RPA would need to approve something along the lines of introducing a superweapon into a plot, or approving special cybernetic implants that greatly enhance the character, and what not. When I was creating TPs that had the Empire rampage across the NR, I didn't go to the RPA once. The only time I went to the RPA was when I sought approval for the creation of new weapons - it took many months, but my submissions for the ST-III, cryoban, and the E-web were accepted (yay, Danik). But the RPA has never been involved in every aspect of the game and it's not meant to do so. The only reason I figured this article should be deleted was because the article said the information was uncanon (and thus not on the MUSH) and I do not think the TP ever progressed (though I may be wrong), so I do not think uncanon, unused material should be on the Wiki. --Danik Kreldin 16:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC) *We are saying essentially the same thing, just your prejudice against me doesn't allow you to see any validity in anything I say. *shrugs* My objection to this article is that it is plainly uncanon regarding the comments about the Aeschylians and as far as I know, these weapons exist only in this article. They haven't been in RP logs submitted here and from what I recall the Mutanda plotline mostly fell apart years ago. --ImperialFH 16:59, 8 November 2007 (UTC) *Well, I agree with you that it should be deleted, but from what I understood from your post it seemed we had different reasons for wanting it to be deleted. I thought you meant that since it wasn't RPA approved then it should be deleted - I think it should be deleted because it was never used and declared uncanon by the creator. If I misunderstood... then well, sorry. But I think it's unfair to say none of us have any prejudices against each other. After seeing you and many more people talk about me as Vextin, I'm very much certain that almost everyone hates me with a passion and it's evident through the Wiki. For instance, take a look at the NR bank article - Luke got pretty mad about it, but he acted on his instinct of "Danik is bad." Then he apologized when he realized I wasn't doing something bad. Hell, he even made a big push to have me fired as Wiki admin after some other articles surfaced where he reacted all angrily but then calmed down when I managed to properly defend myself. So yes, people's attitudes toward me is very different so I don't think it's fair to say I can't have some reservations myself. --Danik Kreldin 17:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC) ** I don't like you. I think you are immature, and don't trust you any further than I can throw you. You have waged your whisper campaigns and secret 'Fire prospero petition' and your behavior with the Neo-Imps on an OOC level was deplorable. I don't make any secret of that and I believe I am fully justified to have that opinion of you. I know what your opinion is of me, I have heard it from several third parties, that you think I am a waste of flesh and don't contribute anything to the MUSH. I personally think you should just move on with your life and find a hobby where you are a welcome member, but that is completely a personal opinion. When I post as ImpFH, I try and leave that behind, sometimes it is not always successful and look at matters objectively.There are certain facts here that I think we all agree on: These weapons wern't RPA approved so they are uncoded. *Uncoded weapons only exist for the scene they are used in if everyone in the scene approves of them. There is no RP Log on the Wiki that references these weapons as far as I can tell, hence I think it calls their existance into question. That has been the rules on the MUSH for several years. Maybe I should have included that in my statement, but I didn't, I figured everybody knew that already. Does the Wiki need to have every weapon ever used in a one shot event on it? I think if they are referenced in an RP Log then probably. But just for the sake of existing? --ImperialFH 17:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC) I'm not prejudiced against _you_, ImpFH, but I surely am against the mentality that still lingers around this place ever since the 90's, when there was a massive chasm between the Have-Wizbits (and friends) and Have-Nots. This mentality seethes the notion that the playerbase is here to serve the admins' agenda(s), and that the MUSH is something to be won. The current administration is, yes, different than those clods that were back then, but there are still remnants of that acerbic legacy — such as SWINFO. We built this compendium to further the stories and efforts of the playerbase (God rest ye who have passed on), not to serve as a tool of the administration exclusively. Alright, so the weapons were never used, and they were uncanon... If that's really the case, and the original creator (who is still active on the MUSH) is fine with it, then I'm all for vaporizing this article. But if this entry is illustrative of his character's background/story, then he has every right to post this material. Granted, it may not be in an ideal format, and we may have to do some reshaping or streamlining to make it fit, but if every article here _has_ to be an exact copy of an "approved" SWINFO entry, then this MUSH is doomed. Tell me, if "several people" are saying that they avoid this Wiki because of its lack of relevance, then where do they host/put/refer their information? Are they making it up on the fly, on their own? Are they keeping it on their own private webpages? -- Hawke / Rtufo 17:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC) *I am sure it is a combination of both. some folks don't keep information in sources off the MUSH, they use the bg function, or they use personal webspace. These were all in use before the Wiki and are still in use since the Wiki. I am all about enabling players to tell their stories, but at the same time, I think that we as artists all need to work from the same palate. The Wiki is an incredible tool for giving us as contributors and players on the MUSH the ability to expand and collaborate on that palate but there have to be some sanity cheecks to make sure that things that are created here, conform to the rules that govern the MUSH. I am not saying that if it doesn't exist in SWinfo it can't exist here, but I am saying that things that aren't in SWINFO and aren't approved by the MUSH Administration/RPA (uncoded ships/items/weapons/etc.) don't have the same level of immediate trust that items that have cleared the higher hurdle of approval will have. Player X and Y can disagree on the stats on the XXX-class uncoded fighter but they pretty much have to agree on the stats of the X-Wing or the TIE Interceptor. This is more related to the MUSH approved tags that Xerxes is working on but is applicable to this discussion.--ImperialFH 18:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC) **SO what is going to happen with this article? Merge? Delete? --Danik Kreldin 07:59, 12 November 2007 (UTC) Based on a straight vote count, it seems the majority agree that this does not belong in the main namespace as 'official' content. So, are we thinking that deleting the article entirely is the right choice, or we could move it to User:Camrath/Aeschylian weapons. I'll bow to majority opinion on this one, so long as people have at least realized that user-fication is an option. Danik and ImpFH, would you please re-confirm (or change) your delete votes? -- Xerxes 12:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC) *I'll adjust my vote to save it from outright deletion. Merge it with User:Camrath as a user sub-page and let Camrath decide where to go from there. Even on Star Wars Wiki they let fan-fiction and non-canon information to be displayed on User pages, so I don't see the real harm just as long as it's clearly noted it's not canon and it belongs to Camrath. --Danik Kreldin 21:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)